Wednesday, April 19, 2006

Tozer's Famous Quote

"It's doubtful that God can use any man greatly until he's hurt him deeply." A.W. Tozer

Do you agree or disagree?



At Thursday, April 20, 2006 1:19:00 AM, Blogger missmellifluous said...

The quote raises the question of whether it is God who does the hurting or us and others?

Does God willingly subject people to suffering to make them who he wants them to be?

I would like to hear others opinions on this matter...

At Thursday, April 20, 2006 5:30:00 AM, Blogger Kim from Hiraeth said...

I know what Tozer is saying, but it seems it is phrased awkwardly. I'd like to see it in context. Sometimes it's not fair to parse words to a nicety without knowing the context, even so. . .

To me, it is never "doubtful that God can" --fill in the blank.

He does all things according to His own perfect purpose and the counsel of His own Will to the praise of His glory. (Eph 1)

He can use any man in any way according to mystery of His will.

And yet, we are hard pressed to think of a single servant of God who did not undergo trials and temptations, challenges and loss. So it seems as though, because of our sinful nature, He must bring us to the point of pain and loss, in order for us to see our sinfulness and our great need for Him.

And yes, Kate, I believe scripture bears out the fact that God willingly subjects His people to suffering in the form of discipline as part of the process of sanctification--conforming us to the image of His dear Son.

(hope you don't mind me answering, Doug)

At Thursday, April 20, 2006 9:32:00 AM, Blogger Joshua Ritchie said...

I was wounded by the Lord when I saw the Commandments and became exceedingly aware of my sin. It was then that He drew me to Himself to be saved through the work of Christ.

Although I don't often feel like it and am not often aware how, I am sure that God is using me for His great pleasure.

At Thursday, April 20, 2006 2:36:00 PM, Blogger Jada's Gigi said...

Oh yeah...I certainly do agree...His purpose is His Son and His Son being seen and known in His Church. He will stop at nothing to accomplish His Purposes...Remember this is the same God who crucified His own Son....

At Thursday, April 20, 2006 4:58:00 PM, Blogger missmellifluous said...

Hi there, Kim!

Thankyou for your response; you are always well thought out and Biblical in your responses. I really appreciate your opinions. Nice to chat to you here too! I still have a few thoughts on the quote though...

I understand that God sanctifies us through suffering; however, I was thinking more of how he does this? I was thinking about the theology of the Sovereignty of God and the way God is often attributed with the instigation of 'bad' things in people's lives (insert any example, sickness, death of a loved one, rape, abuse, broken relationships) as a means of bringing them to Him or using them more powerfully through the wisdom, knowledge, compassion, commitment and love borne of the hurt they have experienced.

To say God hurts us deeply raises questions as to what kind of hurt we are talking about. As Joshua said, he was wounded by the Word of God. That was like a holy violence upon his heart that brought about good in his life. But what about the hurt of life (assault, broken relationships, and other examples given above)? Some of these may be considered to come out of the falleness of humanity. Does God bring these about in our lives to discipline us? Can/Should we attribute these hurts to God? If so, it seems to me that God is more of a Utilitarian than a Deontologist. Or our ideas of 'good' are different to His.

Do you think God hurts us deeply by planning these bad experiences into our lives? Is this what Tozer is refering to or is it the violence of conviction of our need for Him?

Sorry to have listed quite a number of thoughts here... I'd love to hear what you all have to say, and more importantly, what you think the Bible says about this.

At Friday, April 21, 2006 5:12:00 AM, Blogger Modern Day Magi said...

It is when we are broken and weak that He provides comfort and strength. "All things work toegether for good for those that love Him" God may not be the author if evil but He cirtainly allows it, and everything God allows to happen is only so that it may bring Him glory. It may take several degrees of separation but His glory is he purpose of every single event in our lives and history.

It may be o test and strengthen our faith, it may be so His forgiveness and grace may be shown in the face of persecution, it may simply be to take one of His own home at a time we who are left behind did not expect or want, i do not pretend to understand all His plans but they are perfect and good every one.


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