Saturday, May 06, 2006

Postmodern Legalism (The Emergent Church)

Here is a quote I found while reading Tony Jones’ Postmodern Youth Ministry

“We must end the false dichotomy between justification and sanctification (133).”

Jones had been speaking about salvation and how justification is not a one time thing and how it is a process. The implication of this view is that the way you get justified, is by becoming just (not imputed righteousness). The way you are to do this according to the emergent view, is by getting involved in a Christian Community and learning the Christian language. As you do this you become more and more sanctified which is the same as becoming more justified.

May the Lord open their eyes,


P.S. I realize that this is not the view of everyone in the emergent church.


At Sunday, May 07, 2006 1:18:00 AM, Anonymous bobby grow said...

This is an interesting perspective. I suppose once the relativism of pandora's box is opened the church is open to all kinds of fanciful views.

There is a huge population, from my alma mater, who attend and make up the body of believers at a local "emergent" church known as Imago Dei. A couple of profs, one I worked for, also attend there. Of course the emerging church is on a continuum--and Imago Dei is definitely more "traditionalist"on its views relative to issues like inerrancy, salvation, and homosexuality (what a combo), for example--but at the same time they do have their "relevant" doors (if you know what I mean) open to wide for my liking. Another issue I have, is that, in general, the emerging church is most appealing, and intenionally so, to generation X (and some boomers)--which is very un-healthy, because in my view it fragmentizes the body--and leaves no space for older people to feel comfortable worshipping with the PoMo's.

Just some rambling, sorry :-)!

In Christ,



I'll be responding, in a summary fashion, to your response to me on your "active righteousness" article. I just need a little time to formulate a rebuttal and summary ;-) :-) that is as precise, coherent, and clear as your summation was!

Contra Mundum,;-)


At Sunday, May 07, 2006 2:42:00 PM, Blogger Doug E. said...


Thanks for your thoughts on the EC. I like it when we agree ;-). And I know we agree on all the essentials.

Thanks for the Christian fellowship,


At Sunday, May 07, 2006 4:09:00 PM, Blogger Joshua Ritchie said...

So if I understand his statement correctly, justifaction is dependent on some sort of works? Is that what he's saying?

At Sunday, May 07, 2006 5:16:00 PM, Blogger Doug E. said...


He may try to say it is all of grace but ultimately that is what He is saying. Justification is a process of becoming part of community and learning the Christian language.

But even if he does say it is all of grace, the truth of justification is that we get God righteousness accredited to our account and this is a one time, instantanious even that happens at the moment of faith.


At Sunday, May 07, 2006 7:33:00 PM, Blogger Johnnie Burgess Jr said...

Sounds more in agreement with the Roman Catholic church than with Protestants.

At Sunday, May 07, 2006 7:54:00 PM, Blogger Doug E. said...


You've hit the nail on the head.


At Monday, May 08, 2006 12:54:00 AM, Blogger Joshua Ritchie said...

I agree with Johnnie. Recently I finished reading a book that contained a chapter dealing with ECT (Evangelicals & Catholics Together). It shared how Roman Catholic justification is entirely different that the Christian view on justifaction. The Emergent view does seem to be more aligned with the Catholic works progression sort of justification, verses the declared righteous justifiction because of the imputed righteousness of Christ.

Sounds like faith + works, not faith alone. The Mormons do the same things..."Oh yeah, we believe we are justified by baptism and adhering to the 10 Commandments." The last 2 Mormon missionaries I spoke to clearly declared that law-keeping is necessary for salvation, plus faith. Yet they somehow claim that this is all of grace and not of works. Not good at all.

At Monday, May 08, 2006 12:55:00 AM, Blogger Joshua Ritchie said...

My bad on the spelling. It's "Justification" eyes don't see well this late...God bless, Doug.

At Monday, May 08, 2006 8:53:00 AM, Blogger AuthenticTruth said...

While not everyone in the emerging movement embraces all of this teaching, it appears that those who are viewed as the key leaders in the movement (Tony Jones, Brian McLaren, etc) promote this teaching. It is the work of these men that most in the emerging “church” adhere to and are influenced by. If the leadership of any movement, denomination or individual church becomes corrupt, it is inevitable that those under their influence will be corrupt as well. And the false teaching of these leaders seems to prevail in emerging circles.

What Tony Jones is teaching here about justification not being just a one-time, forensic declaration, is very close to Roman Catholicism. Having grown up in the Roman Catholic Church, this sends a chill up my spine because it is absolutely false. The emerging church promises spiritual freedom, but in reality it is just leading people further into spiritual bondage.

The emerging church and certain elements of contemporary evangelicalism, with their overt ecumenism, seem bound and determined to align themselves with Roman Catholicism. We desperately need to emphasize sound theology and a proper understanding of the person and work of our Lord Jesus Christ according to Scripture. The lack of sound teaching in contemporary evangelicalism, reducing doctrine to a lowest common denominator, has created fertile soil for the seeds of heresy to take root. Much of the emerging church philosophy is even influencing mainstream evangelicalism. May God open the eyes of us all to the infiltration of this heresy in our churches!

At Monday, May 08, 2006 11:17:00 AM, Blogger Gordon Cloud said...

This is an incredibly dangerous statement. I shudder to think of the doctrinal can of worms this opens.

At Tuesday, May 09, 2006 10:08:00 AM, Blogger Jeff Broderick said...

PLEASE listen because this is very important.

In the world of Christianity there is a huge movement being made. It is called the Emerging or Emergent Church movement. This movement is the biggest movement ever in Christianity. What is really happening is written in the book of Revelations. For any of you that want to see a Biblical Prophecy unfolding. Go read Revelations I think it is Chapter 13. It speaks of the One World Religion, as well as a One World Government, and Bank System as well. My friends the Emergent Church Movement is the begining of this prophecy being fulfilled. Let me explain why it makes since, and who I would have to say appears to be Huge players in this, and maybe even the Anti-christ himself.

The Emergent Church has also been seen under the term Modern Church, or Seeker Sensitive Church is also a big name it calls itself. What this movement has been doing is disguising itself as Christianity. However what it has really done is, watered down the Gospel, built itself upon tolerance, preaches peace joy love and happiness. It is also now moving into much more dangerous areas. It is now starting to teach that contemplative prayer or silencing. It is begining to introduce Universalism throughout it. Universalism and Christianity are a contradiction to one another. Now do not get me wrong, Peace, Love Joy and Happiness are true legit fruits of the spirit BUT They are a RESULT of having a true conversion and being born again. It is not that those feelings make a RESULT of being saved, as they like to preach. Within the Emergent Church there are key component that are missing. The Biggest is the Gospel. These Churches they do not speak of words such as; Judgement, Righteousness, Eternal Torment, Hell, Repentance, The 10 Commandments. How can you preach the Gospel without these things? The other thing you will see within the Emergent Church is that they do not preach from the Bible. They instead tell stories, and every now and then will quote a verse that ties into their cute story. You see they use psychology and self esteem preaching so you leave there going "WOW that place is wonderful, it is so spirit filled", or you would say exactly what they were designed to make you say. "WOW I did not know church could be so cool, man it was like we were not even at a church". Well I will tell you there is a simple reason why watching an Emergent Service does not feel like being in church. The reason is because IT IS NOT being in church. My friends do not be fooled.

Now Key Players. First let me tell you how close to this subject I am. Some of you may recall a thread a while back that I showed you the Church i was going to. Well this Church is one of the biggest players in this Movement. It is Willow Creek Community Church, head Pastor and a Leader of this movement is Bill Hybels. I was a member there for years and was even a youth pastor there. Many are and will be blinded, I thank God for showing me the truth. Ok soem other Key players would be Brian Mclaren, Joel Olsteen, Andy Stanley, Rick Warren, Rob Bell, Robert Schuller and many other well known pastors. Now for the Biggie, this is the one that (well i am not saying he is, so do not Tag me on this), but some big signs that he could be the Anti-christ is Bono of U2. Yes when you are done laughing I will tell you do your research before scoffing at this comment. Bono is a very influential person all over the world. He has met with all the most powerful leaders and they have all befriended him. He preaches Universalism which says "All roads lead to God" and will be the One World Religion the Bible speaks of. At his last concert he held up a sign that said COEXIST: The C was a half crescent moon for the sign of Islam, the X was the star of David for the Jewish symbol and the T was the cross for Christianity. He began chanting MUHAMMED, JEW, JESUS ALL TRUE. and he began chanting over and over while thousands began joining in. Now is this just Bono showing off or is it deeper, while I looked into it and found out, that he is not only going to be one of the Lead speakers at The World Leadership conference that is hosted by Bill Hybels and Willow Creek Church, but he is also been named as the President of the new World Bank, and now a winner of Nobel Peace Prize. Well he sure would fit the bill. The Anti-christ is going to diguise himself behind , Peace...Joy...Love...and Tolerance. It is going to look good and will Appeal as the Bible says to people, but my friends do not be decieved.

To any Christians that maybe at or were saved at an Emergent Church. I just want to say 2 things. First I was right there with you at the biggest one on the country for years. Now I was not saved there, because I was saved very young before ever experiencing a seeker sensitive church. But I do know many that are truly saved and that is the only church they had been to. So I am not saying you can not be saved there, because God can save you anywhere, it does not matter where you are. What I am saying is that their message is not Biblical, this is NOT "Our Best Life Now" our best life is the one to come. The Bible does not speak the Health, Wealth, Prosperity that this Movement teaches it speaks of hard times, and trials, persecution. We Have 400,000 missionaires in Africa right now, locked up in a freight car being tortured and executed, we have another 200,000 in Korea in what is being called a concentration camp. My friends the Gospel of Jesus Christ is not to be taken lightly and peace, joy, love and happiness, is not the theme of it. This is what our brothers and sisters are dieing for, do not be decieved. Amen!!


Post a Comment

<< Home